LONDON (July 1, 1994) - When the announcement of several of the changes around Freedom Party reached the media via our newsletters, some members of the media responded with interest. One of them was Jim Chapman, host of CKSL's (AM 1410) open line talk show, the Jim Chapman Show. The following interview aired on Canada Day at 10:45 am. The subject? Freedom Party.
CHAPMAN: Since it is Canada Day and since it is the Jim Chapman Show, it seems only appropriate that we talk politics --- at least a little wee bit of it.
The Freedom Party of Ontario is a name that many people have heard. I think a lot of people don't know very much about the party. It has been in existence for a number of years now under the leadership of Robert Metz who has been a guest on this program a couple of times, if memory serves.
Leadership has changed at the party. They've got a new logo. They've got a lot of exciting things happening for them, and they are looking forward very anxiously to the next provincial election. Joining us on the line now --- and thanks to him for joining us on Canada Day --- is the new party leader for the Freedom Party, Jack Plant. Good morning Jack!
PLANT: Good morning, Jim.
CHAPMAN: Jack, I'm going to put you on the spot here...
PLANT: ...Oh oh!
CHAPMAN: ... I'm going to ask you to give us a thumb-nail sketch of what differentiates Freedom Party from the other political parties in Ontario, with which people may be more familiar.
PLANT: Well, Freedom Party is a party that prides itself in being based on sound principles. So many of the other parties say as little as possible, because the more you say, the more chance there is that somebody's going to find some reason to vote against you.
But in contrast, Freedom Party has been stating precisely where we stand. We operate on certain principles that will never change, whereas the other parties tend to 'go with the flow' a lot of time. (They) take polls and find out what the interests of the public are and address those. Really I think so many of the parties, at least the main parties, are parties of expedience, and not principle.
The principles that Freedom Party has espoused for the last ten years embody many things that many parties, such as the Reform Party and conservatives now with their "Common Sense Revolution," are saying. We have a 'bad' reputation in a lot of ways because we have basically spoken the cold hard truth about things like the debt for a long time. I think that's the main difference.
CHAPMAN: Well let's talk about the cold hard truths. What are the fundamental tenets of Freedom Party? What are the things that you stand for, as you say, in your not swaying with the political winds: 'These are the things that Freedom Party stands for.' What are they? What are some of the key elements to the party?
PLANT: We believe in freedom. We believe that it has become a much misdefined concept. We stand for individual rights, property rights, getting the government off the backs of the people, fiscal restraint, getting out of debt. I believe if we did a lot of those things we could turn this country around and there would be no end to prosperity and what we could do. That's essentially where we stand.
CHAPMAN: One of the things I find interesting when I read Freedom Party material is, although you're calling for fiscal responsibility and cutting taxes and so on you've also said that we can't just do it willy-nilly, that we have to be very aware of the ramifications of it and do it very carefully. We have to do it, but do it carefully. And I found it interesting. I talked to some people, oh, a month or so ago about a variety of the so-called --- and no offence meant by this -- the so-called 'fringe' parties, and the subject of Freedom Party came up. Their perception was that Freedom Party was for slashing government spending and immediately lowering taxes and devil take the hindmost and I know that's not your position.
PLANT: Well yes, that's true. But what we are proposing would have to be done eventually. If we keep going the way we're going, we're going to end up like New Zealand. We're going to run into the wall, and these things do have to be done.
But there is a great misperception among a lot of people I talk to because of the principles in which we believe. If we did it 'all at once' it would seem very harsh and a lot of people are very afraid of that. They think 'we'd do it all overnight;' we'd get in power or something and everything would be gone. That's not true. But you do have to have a plan, and you have to honestly be moving in that direction. So many of the parties say the words and then they don't do the actions.
There's a lot of change in direction now, such as that offered by the Reform Party, although we do have some areas with the Reform Party where we may disagree. (As a matter of direction), I think at least on the federal level, they would be the best choice.
CHAPMAN: Jack, let me ask you a question about the Reform Party. There's some talk of a provincial wing. The federal Reformers appear to be adamantly opposed to this. They're concerned about breaking up the small-'c' conservative vote in Ontario in the next election, and perhaps allowing the Liberals to walk in and form the next government. Your party certainly has been characterized as small-'c' conservative...
PLANT: ... yes...
CHAPMAN: ... is there any danger if Freedom Party, for example, is more successful in this next election, is there any danger of it having a similar role in Ontario to what the Reform Party did nationally? Many people think (it) certainly contributed greatly to the Liberal landslide --- that they split the smail-'c' vote between the Tories and Reform, and a number of seats were lost. Whereas, if you combine the Tory and the Reform votes, they would have defeated the Liberal candidate who eventually won the riding. Is there any danger of that, do you think, with a party like yours?
PLANT: No, I think this is an inevitable trend, and I'm very happy to see more choices being offered in the political spectrum. I think it's a good thing.
And as for as the last election, I believe, generally, (that) in (the) elections I've seen all my life, people vote against things. They were voting against Brian Mulroney, just as in the last provincial election they voted against David Peterson.
When I was young and growing up in London, I would always see, for example, that people would vote for the conservatives. And they'd be in and then do things and people would get really angry at them, and so they'd vote in the Liberals. And then they'd get angry at them and vote in the conservatives. And this went back and forth for years. And finally they got really angry at the Liberals and voted in the NDP.
I think that this cycle will be broken in the end. As far as the conservatives go, many people have said to me "Why don't you join a party like the conservatives and change that party?'" I don't think there's much hope of doing that.
As you say, we do represent a party that could be perceived as small-'c' conservative. But I think in a lot of ways, we're also small-'l' liberal. A lot of the principles and policies that both of those parties stood for years ago were quite laudable, but I don't believe that they're operating on those principles anymore. I believe that more choice in politics is a good thing.
CHAPMAN: Bob Metz, a founding member of Freedom Party, has been quoted as saying "Our eventual electability fully depends on our commitment to the very principles many believe prevent us from getting elected." And he's also made reference --- Bob and I have talked about this --- that getting elected is not necessarily (everything), although it's, you know, if you're in politics, that's the goal --- but you can do an awful lot without getting elected in terms of putting pressure on the government and drawing public attention to the issues. Do you see the ongoing role of Freedom Party as combining both of those? Like, you certainly want to get elected, but there's also a role to play as maybe even a bit of a gadfly! Is that an unfair characterization?
PLANT: No. Absolutely not. We believe to a large extent that elections almost get in the way of what we do.
We are continually publishing our publications (and) our newsletters, lobbying groups and supporting other groups that come to us, and pressuring the government for change. I think you're seeing a lot of the changes and I believe honestly that Freedom Party is very responsible for a lot of the things that have happened. (We've been) getting the information out there and networking with many people like the Fraser Institute, or the NCC, or the Foundation for Economic Education in the United States, the Hoover Institution, the Freedom Foundation. So much is happening now. We've worked with the Reform Party. We supported the Reform Party in the federal election, though we clearly stated where we stand as opposed to them.
CHAPMAN: Now Jack, as you look ahead as the new leader of the party, what do you see as your primary task? Is there any one particular thing that you believe you have to accomplish as leader?
I guess winning an election would be nice, but in terms of practical steps that have to be taken to broaden the base of Freedom Party, what do you say?
PLANT: Well, you've met Bob Metz and I have to say that I'm basically involved in Freedom Party because of my association with him. I greatly admire him and he's been a great leader for the party. One of my main roles as party leader is to dispel the 'radical' image of Freedom Party, and also to encourage people to step forward, as I had to, to take more of a leadership role. I know you're always encouraging people to get more involved, and I fully believe in that (but it's very hard for people).
It was a serious decision for me to take over this leadership because I have some big shoes to fill. I have to do my best to communicate and help people understand a lot of the misconceptions they might have about Freedom Party.
I know there are a lot (of misconceptions) out there. I would encourage people to find out what we are actually all about. We don't want to get up in people's faces and we're not forcing anybody to believe what we believe, but I think if people had a closer look they'd be happy with what they'd find.
CHAPMAN: Jack, if people want more information about Freedom Party, is there a phone number they can call?
PLANT: Sure, Jim. It's 681-3999.
CHAPMAN: 681-3999. Jack Plant, the new leader of the Freedom Party of Ontario, we thank you for joining us today and I want to wish you a happy Canada Day.
PLANT: You too, Jim. Thank you.
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last updated on April 28, 2002
